Well hello there everyone
Here a few photos from Richard, who was the lucky chap to get the spare ticket I posted about.
They are mainly of the tunnel monitoring systems. The 1st photo looking down from Hazle Grove is a stunning photo.
Well done and many thanks to Richard for sending these in.
Keep on diggin.........
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20 comments:
Am I seeing correctly that the speed limit through the tunnel is an utterly ridiculous 40mph?
I can't wait to see the tailbacks if so.
I'll be giving the tunnel a wide berth & go an alternative route. What a wasted opportunity.
Hi doc and gummy,
From what i understand the 40mph is just for emergencies.
The tunnels have now been handed over to the higways agency and they are testing the sinage and emergencies systems.
Lve the blog gummy your a proper legend!
Yes the 40mph is for emergencies. The signs show national speed limit but can be electronically switched to 40mph.
With Miss James' Footbridge now open you can get some really nice views of the road now!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomodophotography/5752365161/in/photostream
Tomodo & i love gingers, I think if you look very carefully at the first picture of this series "You are being watched!" look at the speed limit signs on the slip road (you will need to magnify it!) and you'll see that the speed limit is 40mph, which is pathetic for brand new section of dual-bore tunnel, which is also a dual carriageway!
This limit will extend journey times & with SPECs cameras there as well, people will actually do considerably less to ensure they don't get a ticket, will cause bunching & tailbacks.
The Highways Agency are also breaking the rules regarding the deployment of the SPECs cameras as they need to have KSI (Killed, Serious Injury) stats to use them, which the tunnel of course doesn't have.
So it proves the fact that the cameras are there solely as revenue earners.
First of all, may I congratulate Doc Martin for his excellent eye-sight!
Today I had a look at the signs at the bottom of the North bound slip-road and these do indeed say 40mph. However, they are the rotating type signs (I'm sure that there is a better name) which can show other limits and I guess that they just happen to be at 40mph at the moment.
Regards CB
@Anonymous.
I hope you're right, I have emailed the HA to clarify what the speed limits through the tunnels will be in both "normal" mode & "degraded" modes of operation.
Only by getting that information, do we as future users of the tunnel know where we stand with these yellow vultures, what I also want to know is, Is there a guarantee that these cameras will be set correctly at all times?
How do we know that someone couldn't "accidentally" set them lower, when there's no need to, which would be a terribly convenient way of earning some money to pay for the tunnel.
Even if the limit is 40mph the journey through the tunnel will be considerably quicker than the present crawl round the Punchbowl and much much quicker than any other alternative route. However the speed limits are variable dependent on the conditions within the tunnel. Nothing new, here the M25 does it and other busy motorways.
@Nutcombe.
You only need to see what the result of these so called traffic flow improving variable speed limits do to that... Long, Long tailbacks.
That just proves that system doesn't work.
We were promised a major improvement, I'd hardly call the implementation of a 40mph restriction on a brand new road an improvement, it's a completely retrograde step as we'll get bunching, slow traffic, low speed shunts/accidents and as a consequence worse traffic than before!
Then what will happen, when people get clear of it they'll accelerate to higher speeds than before, which means the so called "Safety Camera" bods will have a field day down the road at Thursley (I know where they lurk, my sat nav tells me where their locations are!) picking off motorists who've been delayed in the chaos around the tunnel.
Doc, the speed limit is National and not 40mph. It's very clear from the photos I have and from all the time I've been looking at the road.
If there was a set 40mph zone there would be standard signs at the beginning and end points of the tunnel section. The 40mph signs you see are electronic signs used for emergencies when Lane Control is required. The cameras are to ensure traffic slows down, particularly if the level crossing style signals are active. There's a complex traffic management system in place by the looks of the electronic signs around the tunnel and further along the A3.
The anti-camera talk makes me laugh if I'm honest. Faster travel does not equal better traffic flow. The reason the M25 variable doesn't work is because people don't stick to it. If you don't like speed cameras, just don't break the speed limit!
Just to clarify the 40mph and National Speed Limit signs i've put this up to show the two signs:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/5758493575_b82abe696e_o.jpg
Also worth noting these are average speed cameras, so much better than normal fixed cameras.
I see your point Tomodo in that they're variable.
So it seems that it will be a 70mph tunnel, which will be a great time saver.
I still have concerns about the SPECs cameras, as they could in theory alter the speed limit with vehicles "in transit", so it's possible that a vehicle could enter the tunnel under 70mph conditions, yet exit under 40! So will it get a ticket?
The only fair way to do it will be to stop all the traffic for 2 mins, so that the tunnel is empty & then impose it so that it's done fairly.
Does anyone know if these cameras are interlocked with the signs, to prevent an operator leaving them at a lower setting, yet having the speed boards showing national speed limit.
I hope you can all see my concerns with this, as any of us could be affected by it.
Doc, according to the UKSpeedTraps website, when a limit changes on the M25 system, it "Starts a timer for a user-set "grace period", to allow the motorist time to react to the new limit. This is generally set at 5mins"
One would assume that the tunnel system works in the same way.
I use the A3 daily and I'm certainly no saint when it comes to speeding and generally hate the revenue generating cameras. However, I support the use of Specs in the tunnel, as I certainly don't wish to be sat in a queue underground due to somebody having a crash!
Regards CB
The 'grace period' seems like the logical and likely option.
The main reason why you'd get a speed limit change is because there's an incident in the tunnel - so it might be a while before you get to the other side of the tunnel anyway!
Still, there's likely also signs inside the tunnel that could alert of any changes.
Ultimately there will be little excuse to break any speed limits set in the tunnel.
Change of subject:-
What will the old part of the A3 road be called now? This question was posted some while back.
On the tunnel walk I saw A333 on one of the signs just as the bus was stopping, did not get a picture unfortunantly..
I work on the tunnel systems. The speed limit in normal traffic flow is 70MPH. 40MPH is only for either contra-flow when a bore is down for maintenance or during heavy congestion. Its no different to major roads such as the M6 and M42 in the Midlands and M25 where active speed management is used in varying situations.
To also clarify the speed limit, camera situation and the old A3 name... I too work on the project by the way.
Speed limit is national in normal running. 40mph where an incident has occurred.
The incident detection systems (including the radar system - the white chess-piece-like looking object in the photos) picks up slow moving vehicles, stopped vehicles, pedestrians and objects in the road. These automatically set the signs in the tunnel to warn users of the danger and may also close a lane (6th Photo of black signs).
Speed cameras are set to record excessive speeds above 40mph and national limits when set accordingly; this is a system that does both limits.
There is indeed a timer set to allow for a change in speed limit whilst a vehicle is between the two sets of cameras, but I would think drivers will need to respond to any changes in speed limit whilst in transit, there are regular repeater signs.
The SPECs cameras are set such that offenders are exceeding the limits beyond reasonable doubt, for example the base-line measurements between cameras are taken such that drivers have the advantage.
As far as I'm aware there is no requirement to have a KSI to install pernament SPECs. The cameras are there to keep vehicle speeds within the limits as a safety measure. SPECS is much better at ensuring compliance from drivers.
Yes the old A3 is (or will be) the A333.
Also note that next to the SPECS cameras is an ANPR system - make sure you are insured, taxed and MOT'd when driving through!!
Thanks for the information. Very impressive systems in place - no wonder time is being taken now to test them.
@other anonymous.
Yes i know...I designed most of the control systems and led the project in doing that for 3 years.
I know what all the systems do, and how it works, better than most people on the project.
WHAT a relief.........
My heart sank when I saw the 40mph signs tonight. After 10 years of the lights this was looking like a big disappointment. So glad I found this blog.
I can't wait!
Thanks
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